Old San Soo had a character of its own, it was violent, evasive, brutal and overpowering. Especially for the time we first learned because there were few on the streets who knew how to fight against it. Old San Soo was mostly a stand up Art with a few sweeps and takedowns. When interviewed, Chan Sai Mo (his classmate and Son of his instructor Chan Siu Hung) told us that he knew nothing but Choy Li Fut when he left China. So we must assume much of “Old Style” was a modified Choy Li Fut. It involved mainly a form of long arm striking however his delivery was much different from CLF that mainly strikes more loose armed from the shoulder but GMW power traveled from his core.
I have discussed with top Masters about how much training and the depth of training GMW had when he came to the US and we all agreed he was a good fighter however he added much more to his Art after he arrived. How this was done would be only conjecture but I believe we can figure out why. Since was 19 or 20 when he arrived his training would have been limited to a few years, the final Art he gave was much deeper than he could have learned in those years. When he opened his studio he told an early student (Clyde Coad) that “after you learn the Basic 45 (Ju Jitsu’s) that’s it, you’re finished”. He felt the Americans would learn to fight and move on, was he wrong, no one could chase us away.
He knew that he needed to expand the to deeper level which explains the Art and how it changed San Soo.
New San Soo brought us more throws and leverage but there was also some bad habits that started. With the NSS the blocks became both fewer and weaker, some went directly to the throw without softening up your opponent opening themselves up to a counter. The Woolsey lineage seemed to favor Old San Soo thinking is is superior, it was good however it was self limiting and had far less throws and takedowns. I preferred learning it all, to me the combination of both gives you many more options. I have heard some say OSS was deadlier, they think that when a student was seriously injured and sued Grandmaster he watered down OSS so it would be safer. That was not the case, he was adding variety to his system to make it more complete. I was there during the lawsuit, since I was in law enforcement he asked for help. He felt if one Cop talked to another the injured one may change his mind. I called him from the studio with Grandmaster standing and listening right beside me but it did not work. I could say if we heard anything after that was, “you guy’s be more careful”. The Art was just as deadly, maybe even deadlier because with the new leverages you could break up a person better.
Outsiders make a big deal that we lack ground work, we were trained in some but not to the extent of those who specialized in it. Mixed martial arts was starting to get popular prior to his death but as I said he gave us what we needed as the threats changed through the years. Most of us were not interested in cage fighting but I do believe if he would have lived longer he would have started teaching more ground work. He was a proud fighter, if one or two of his students came to class with injuries or if he found out they did not do well, he would have re-evaluated what was taught and added to it. Now it is up to each instructor to decide what course he will take and best suit his existing knowledge but teach San Soo as it was taught. it is an effective Art.
I love reading all this information about san soo. That you for sharing your knowledge.
I’ve been practicing on and off since 1979 from the old book.dont try to read much about the art of San Soo.I have read sudden violence.To many opinions from to many people.practice what you are taught and practice it faithfully and you will be proficient with accuracy.speed will not be necessary.Ive only had to use it once in a fight.the fight was over as fast as it began.all my schooling was taught by a grandmaster.I also written every lesson down on paper and still have them today.
Good for you Mark,
Stay with it, however I would never quit researching or cut myself off from knowledge, there is still much out there that may even help you to understand San Soo better. My search has taken us to HIS existing school, we now have photo’s of his town the Temple foundation and many new real stories. Please don’t confuse opinions (most opinions are worthless) with real research that is provable which makes them facts.
Thanks
Old San Soo is superior. However new San Soo does have some value in it. So yes, a proper training/understanding of both is ideal. But in my opinion, if you want to be more effective, your focus should be on Old San Soo.
Many of Franks students came over to El Monte thinking the same thing but remember that is all that Frank had as he no longer studied with Grand Master Woo. We were not amazed with what we saw and I believe many or most were dropped in rank. Al Rubin blended in quite nicely, picked up what was taught and became very good. Do you really think that we who learned both think one is better? I have found the San Soo students who are stuck in the “Old” would be able to defeat many untrained or low belt fighters but would have big problems with those highly trained today. Old San Soo was King of the streets in it’s day however I would be uncomfortable if that is all I had today. Why do you think GMW added it, don’t believe the BS lawsuit story, I was there and talked with him about that.
I’ve only ever trained in New San Soo, I’ve never formally trained in Old San Soo. I’ve only seen videos and I purchased The Red Book by Frank Woolsey. However I feel the older version is more effective and makes more sense. I’m from the Inland Empire lineage, the place where they focused on unrealistic leverage throws and risky block steps and other things that would never work in a real fight. Some of the very basic throws/trips from the strong horse stances worked for me. And a few of the strikes. But overall it didn’t have the power and circular fluidity that Old San Soo has.
My San Soo training is VERY similar to what I’ve seen you complain about on the American San Soo forum. So I’m sure you can understand why I feel this way.
This is Dedicated Villain by the way from the American San Soo forum.
I really like your blog! Keep it up!